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Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 09:33:00 - [1] - Quote The best and only way to nerf highsec is to reduce the amount of research/copy/manufacturing slots and make refining something that takes time. I'm a high sec industrialist BTW, so don't shout "go back to null and leave us alone". Mission payments are fine, the problem is that highsec industry is so saturated that prices are down to dirt cheap levels. I remember seeing somewhere an industrialist say that he sells ships at a loss and makes a profit out of the modules. Yup, that's really smart! If there is less competition, you are limiting supply and increasing demand, hence the prices will go up, so the mission rewards wouldn't be a problem. This will also drive industrialists into low sec and null sec, to either set up a PoS there to manufacture and refine minerals or join up an alliance or just use a nearby station. And make it so you can't have 99.99% mineral yield for miners, make it max of 75% in high sec. 87% in low sec and 99.99% in null sec. And now we go to null sec: When you fix PoS's make sure to: A. limit some types of PoS's to low and null sec, or else we're at square one B. make it so the limited PoS's will yield better results with industry C. Improve the PoS production and refining stuff There, I just fixed high sec. Was it that hard? Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 09:38:00 - [2] - Quote You are welcome to figure out who my alt is. P.S You will never find him because this is my only character. High sec industry will exist, but it will be more limited. You may set up a PoS (CCP said something about personal PoS's), but it won't be as efficient. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 09:41:00 - [3] - Quote celebro wrote: No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. It already exists. High just won't be as lucrative. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 09:47:00 - [4] - Quote Robertina Bering wrote: Your nickname tells everything about you Actually, I chose it because I troll my cats, no other reason. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 09:51:00 - [5] - Quote Funky Lazers wrote: Cat Troll wrote: I'm a high sec industrialist BTW No, you are not. Go adapt! Please look at my killboard and tell me I live anywhere other than high sec. I'm currently stationed in Romi where my corp has a high sec PoS, and i'm the industry leader of it. I firmly believe that low sec and null sec need a buff and high sec needs a nerf. When I think of going to low sec, my first thought is... what's the point? Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 10:08:00 - [6] - Quote celebro wrote: Cat Troll wrote: celebro wrote: No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. It already exists. High just won't be as lucrative. It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there. I see your point so I added a little extra to my post. Would that be fine? Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 10:28:00 - [7] - Quote Randolph Rothstein wrote: the less competition you are talking about would be players who would quit the game rather than deal with nerfed industry potential i said in one of the previous threads that i suspect the majority of high sec players are casuals who dont make enough money because they dont have a lot of time to play - yet they play the game because their skills are going up even if they are not playing nerfing high sec wouldnt make them play more or move to low sec,it would make them quit if you could make sure high sec dwellers wont quit the game then you got a point,however i dont know how (or if) it can be done Industry high sec will still very much exist, they will just either have to group up or invest in a personal PoS to do things as usual. They will still get the same amount of money if not more out of what they make because the prices will go up. Mistah Ewedynao wrote: You know what opinions are like right? Good to know you have one instead of just being one. Oh....and Merry Christmas. Incase you didn't notice, if you can prove this idea is bad then just say why it is, and I will try to fix it if I see your point. Like I did before. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 10:45:00 - [8] - Quote celebro wrote: Cat Troll wrote: celebro wrote: Cat Troll wrote: celebro wrote: No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. It already exists. High just won't be as lucrative. It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there. I see your point so I added a little extra to my post. Would that be fine? There already is an under supply of veldspar in null sec, removing it will actually buff high sec and make it even more lucrative to mine in safe regions. My idea of balance in a nutshell: Null sec: Abundance of raw materials both high and low ends, with slight buff in industry, refining etc. High sec: Cheap, stable industry. This is where you should get the best deals. More or less what we have now. Dependent on 0.0 for most of the raw materials required. Do you mind if I copy what you said to my post? Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 10:50:00 - [9] - Quote Randolph Rothstein wrote: Cat Troll wrote: Industry high sec will still very much exist, they will just either have to group up or invest in a personal PoS to do things as usual. They will still get the same amount of money if not more out of what they make because the prices will go up. the prices will go up aaaaand also the mineral prices will go up because less minerals would be available,the profit margin wont change you know who would actually benefit from this change? miners and botters - well done - so you d not only need to nerf high sec but also overhaul mining and ores unless ofc you want tritanium at 10 isk per unit which would **** of mission runners and pvpers who would complain that they get more money afk mining which would cause another overhaul of pvp and mission rewards and incursions and at this point half of your playerbase would be just fcking tired of all the changes and unstable gameplay environment and they would just started playing something less turbulent Nice assumption. Now let me give you the real story: A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best. And it takes more than an hour to fill it up. A single level 4 mission nets you 20 million ISK at minimum, and they take less than an hour. So you wild dreams of people making billions from AFK mining isn't true. Now face the corner and think about what you've said. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 11:28:00 - [10] - Quote Randolph Rothstein wrote: Cat Troll wrote: A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best. And it takes more than an hour to fill it up. 1.veldspar is not the best isk/hour,not even in high sec 2.its more than 2,5-5 mil at best 3.it doesnt take an hour to fill up a retriever you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers i call a troll because you have no idea what are you talking about,your figures are all wrong as if you pulled them out of your bottom well done troll,you got me /thread Haha no. I spent a good part of my time in EVE mining. You know what's the best ISK/hour? Scordite, veldspar right behind it. Second, if it did more than 5 mil I would still be mining And I timed, with two strip miners it took me two hours. "you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers" Yes, because a miner/trader/manufacturer that spends most of his time doing it, AND did a bunch of tests doesn't know jack ****. Call troll all you want, its not true. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 48	Posted - 2012.12.25 12:22:00 - [11] - Quote Randolph Rothstein wrote: Cat Troll wrote: Randolph Rothstein wrote: Cat Troll wrote: A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best. And it takes more than an hour to fill it up. 1.veldspar is not the best isk/hour,not even in high sec 2.its more than 2,5-5 mil at best 3.it doesnt take an hour to fill up a retriever you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers i call a troll because you have no idea what are you talking about,your figures are all wrong as if you pulled them out of your bottom well done troll,you got me /thread Haha no. I spent a good part of my time in EVE mining. You know what's the best ISK/hour? Scordite, veldspar right behind it. Second, if it did more than 5 mil I would still be mining And I timed, with two strip miners it took me two hours. "you dont know jack sjit about mining or market prices or mining barges or mining lasers" Yes, because a miner/trader/manufacturer that spends most of his time doing it, AND did a bunch of tests doesn't know jack ****. Call troll all you want, its not true. i dont know where do you get those figures from - probably as u used to mine in the past? things have changed,your figures are wrong the only thing you are right about is scordite and thats only after i corrected you whatever dude you live in the past,your figures are outdated,i suggest you do some math before you talk BS,i know ignorance is a bliss but not here I was mining during the Inferno update. So unless mining got completly overhauled during Retribution, my figures are right. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 49	Posted - 2012.12.25 13:52:00 - [12] - Quote Malphilos wrote: Cat Troll wrote: I'm currently stationed in Romi where my corp has a high sec PoS, and i'm the industry leader of it. So, the proposition is that they should buff your circumstance relative to NPC stations "for the good of the game"? No actually, the only reason I mentioned this was because that people thought I was from null sec. This was never in my mind while writing this post. Etherealclams wrote: Cat Troll wrote: You are welcome to figure out who my alt is. P.S You will never find him because this is my only character. Yeah, Because people name their main characters "Cat Troll". People who like to troll their cats do. My other two characters that the only reason they exist was because I wanted to reserve the name: Kenneth Donnelly and Vortigaunt all knowing. They're still sitting in some newbie system and didn't even get a rookie ship. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 49	Posted - 2012.12.25 14:01:00 - [13] - Quote Malphilos wrote: Cat Troll wrote: Malphilos wrote: Cat Troll wrote: I'm currently stationed in Romi where my corp has a high sec PoS, and i'm the industry leader of it. So, the proposition is that they should buff your circumstance relative to NPC stations "for the good of the game"? No actually, the only reason I mentioned this was because that people thought I was from null sec. This was never in my mind while writing this post. I understand. Just a happy coincidence that it works out that way. I also written that High sec PoS's would be limited compared to what stations were, so if I was really trying to say something for my benefit I wouldn't try to nerf myself now would I? Dave stark wrote: your figures are as right as i am when i say "the sky is made of cheese" 6.3m per can of kernite, 20 mins (23 mins with t1 strips) to fill a retriever, 18.9m isk per hour. takes about 30 seconds to do the correct maths and not look like a moron insisting you're right instead of actually researching the topic being discussed. Didn't do the math, I looked at a clock >_> Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 62	Posted - 2012.12.25 19:17:00 - [14] - Quote Captain Death1 wrote: Reset the game set all skills of players to 0 remove all isk in game let them all start over then we nerf high sec this will fix null and high sec ....no Sprays with water Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 71	Posted - 2012.12.26 12:32:00 - [15] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Cat Troll wrote: I remember seeing somewhere an industrialist say that he sells ships at a loss and makes a profit out of the modules. Yup, that's really smart! I won't intrude in the umpteenth cry nerf thread but this sentence sort of hit me as expecially misplaced. Go and read about what a loss leader is. Large companies (like Sony and Amazon) and many supermarkets do it. Apparently that's really smart! I don't know about others, but Sony gets royalties from game companies in the millions, those more than cover the loss. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 93	Posted - 2012.12.26 17:37:00 - [16] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Cat Troll wrote: I have 3 billion in liquid ISK and even more billions in assets. I ask to nerf the very thing I do. So I don't know how to play the game? YOu need more billions, to hell with "balance" You don't get me do you? I'm a high sec industrialist saying that High sec industry is OP. So how does it equate to me having more billions? Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 93	Posted - 2012.12.26 17:38:00 - [17] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Cat Troll wrote: I have 3 billion in liquid ISK and even more billions in assets. I ask to nerf the very thing I do. So I don't know how to play the game? YOu need more billions, to hell with "balance" I want my wallet icon to flash more often. Please make it flash more often. It also flashes when you spend money. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 93	Posted - 2012.12.26 17:39:00 - [18] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Cat Troll wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Cat Troll wrote: I have 3 billion in liquid ISK and even more billions in assets. I ask to nerf the very thing I do. So I don't know how to play the game? YOu need more billions, to hell with "balance" You don't get me do you? I'm a high sec industrialist saying that High sec industry is OP. So how does it equate to me having more billions? You would need to read Alavaria's posting history a bit more to understand... Hmm... wat Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 93	Posted - 2012.12.26 17:41:00 - [19] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Dave stark wrote: Cat Troll wrote: Dave stark wrote: your figures are as right as i am when i say "the sky is made of cheese" 6.3m per can of kernite, 20 mins (23 mins with t1 strips) to fill a retriever, 18.9m isk per hour. takes about 30 seconds to do the correct maths and not look like a moron insisting you're right instead of actually researching the topic being discussed. Didn't do the math, I looked at a clock >_> please, never post again. This might be good advice. I looked at the clock when I started mining, written down the hour, went on to fill a retriever, and checked my clock again. The time it took was 1.2 hours. Why is it stupid to you? Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 93	Posted - 2012.12.26 17:45:00 - [20] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: What skills, what fit, what boosts. I know I can fill a retriever in 20mins, clearly you are failing at EVE. Don't worry, we all do... Filled top slots with strip miners. Put some mining upgrades (don't remember how many), my mining skills are pretty high tho not maxed. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 93	Posted - 2012.12.26 17:52:00 - [21] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Cat Troll wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: What skills, what fit, what boosts. I know I can fill a retriever in 20mins, clearly you are failing at EVE. Don't worry, we all do... Filled top slots with strip miners. Put some mining upgrades (don't remember how many), my mining skills are pretty high tho not maxed. Thanks for all the precise info. Now we only need to know how much your retriever can hold, what MLU you were using, if you have any implants and the exact level of each mining related skill to be sure you didn`t mess something up. Around 23-24k, I really don't remember I didn't mine in a long time. I just buy minerals nowdays. I had combat implants for missions. And again, it was a long time ago so I don't remember each and every skill, but most mining skills were at either Level V or IV. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 93	Posted - 2012.12.26 17:58:00 - [22] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: It all adds up to a nice difference. Thats why actual miner do train them. You can't put numbers on how much a miner can gain without specific precise info without your statement being correctly labeled as worthless. It's a troll, isn't it? It's a troll. Sure. Call troll. In the end how long it takes to fill a retriever doesn't actually change anything about the thread. Just some pointless argument. P.S Isn't troll a word that's being used a bit too loosely lately? Even if I was trolling, this would be the worst trolling I have ever done. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 93	Posted - 2012.12.26 18:00:00 - [23] - Quote Buzzy Warstl wrote: Cat Troll wrote: You are welcome to figure out who my alt is. P.S You will never find him because this is my only character. High sec industry will exist, but it will be more limited. You may set up a PoS (CCP said something about personal PoS's), but it won't be as efficient. That's bass ackwards to your stated goal, but if it makes you happy... What? Frostys Virpio wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: It all adds up to a nice difference. Thats why actual miner do train them. You can't put numbers on how much a miner can gain without specific precise info without your statement being correctly labeled as worthless. It's a troll, isn't it? It's a troll. It depends. If he is willingly speading lies, then it's a troll. If he just don't know ebtter, then I think it's just bad paosting. I timed how long it took me. I may have made mistakes, maybe I wasn't as efficient as possible (which may be true because I knew less about mining than I do now), but it doesn't actually change anything. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 94	Posted - 2012.12.26 18:32:00 - [24] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Cat Troll wrote: I timed how long it took me. I may have made mistakes, maybe I wasn't as efficient as possible (which may be true because I knew less about mining than I do now), but it doesn't actually change anything. Every different skill level, module used and the size of asteroid have an impact on the math which cahnge the results which make the statement worthless unless we also have the details to compare with. Thats why it's either a troll (if you willingfully make misstakes like that) or a bad poast (If you don't know better and post use It's a troll, he managed to make it take three times as long. It's definitely a troll. No, I'm not. What I can tell you is that weather I'm right or you're right about the retirever DOESN'T MATTER, it has nothing to do with the post. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 94	Posted - 2012.12.26 20:49:00 - [25] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Simetraz wrote: Cat Troll wrote: celebro wrote: No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec. It already exists. High just won't be as lucrative. What you don't get is that a vast majority of items produced in High-sec go right back to null. basically you are trying to force Null-sec to become industrial. What is funny is that back when 20,000 players was peak nobody cared about high-sec being a industrial base. But now when High-sec industry is needed just to keep things going people want to nerf it. IF you want to nerf high-sec. Stop selling minerals , moon-goo to high-sec. THere is nothing stopping null from setting up a Null-sec Jita. One of the NPC null locations would work just fine. THe reality is it won't ever happen because Null doesn't want it to happen. WIth all the NAP's going on right now it might work. WHo was that alliance who had nuetral stations spread around null ? While you can prevent yourself and maybe a few more people from seling to empire market, how do you prevent the rest from doing it as the price rise because demand is not met? You would face the exact same problem miner would if they tried to make the minerals price go up, Someone else will sell instead of you and he will get ISKs while you don't. You can't blockade empire out. You can't stop the movement of assets. The economy will keep flowing as long as someone sets his price low enough. Hulkageddon dind't stop miners despite the trillions in damage done. You can't stop that kind of force unless you have dev power to change the rules. ^ Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Cat Troll Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 108	Posted - 2012.12.27 04:34:00 - [26] - Quote Sisohiv wrote: So, you want CCP to nerf your competition? You miss the real issue with EVE and High Sec. It's a 10 year old game. Every one is 'high Sec capped'. We all have 8.0 with an empire and are refinery capped. We have max bonus to everything. There is no distinguishing trademark between the Industrialists of EVE. You think you have an edge and can some how rise above the nerf but you are wrong. CCP need to break the stale mate. Thats where you lost me. Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."

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